Torture at Abu Ghraib
The more I read about Abu Ghraib, and the more pictures I see (graphic, be warned), and the more destructive interactions I see (3MB Frontline cip), the more ill I feel. Ill to be an American. Ill to be human. That we went to war in Iraq is an argument itself, but now that we’re there, to have such vile treatment (sodomy with brooms, public masturbation, genital electrocution) occur by US soldiers is disgusting. The prisoners are mostly citizens–arrested for looting probably 9 months ago–with no hope of release. This is the kind of thing that should bring charges against the United States by other civilized countries. This is the kind of reckless, ethnocentric, cowboy attitude that Americans are known for. One of the soldiers in charge referred to the prisoners as animals.
Part of me thinks, “This is what happens when you put 18- and 19-year olds in charge.” But it also reminds me of the Stanford Prison Experiment, a social psychology experiment that’s so infamous I’m surprised no one has mentioned it. Back in 1971, a researcher named Philip Zimbardo wanted to see how social roles were played out by average, run-of-the-mill college undergrads. He assigned half to the “prison guard role,” and gave them uniforms to wear as such; the other half were designated “prisoners,” and were locked together in small cells. The guards, over the course of a couple days, took on “guard” characteristics, and the prisoners took on “prisoner” characteristics, too. To the point that, a week into the experiment, half of the prisoners could not answer why they were in the prison, only that they knew they needed a lawyer so they could get out. What’s striking is the similarity to the lack of guard training from soldiers at Abu Ghraib. From the Prison Experiment site:
bq(quote). The guards were given no specific training on how to be guards. Instead they were free, within limits, to do whatever they thought was necessary to maintain law and order in the prison and to command the respect of the prisoners. The guards made up their own set of rules, which they then carried into effect under the supervision of Warden David Jaffe, an undergraduate from Stanford University. They were warned, however, of the potential seriousness of their mission and of the possible dangers in the situation they were about to enter, as, of course, are real guards who voluntarily take such a dangerous job.
Man, and you wonder why some of the Iraqis are trying to kill us.
Our friend Phil has indeed tossed in his own 2c on the topic.
http://www.socialpsychology.org/forums/professional/index.htm?read=701
Would you treat someone who two days earlier was shooting RPG’s or RPK’s at you with respect and kindness?
They are the enemy.. They are the ones killing our soldiers.
Do i think what happend should have? no. But i understand the soldiers were setting the mind frame of defeat in the prisoners. The media has blown this way out of proportion. And i think just lost everything we have done there..
Did the media mention how we rebuilt zoos? imported whole new water cleaning machines? rebuilt schools? donated tons of hospital equipment? no
They only spread the word of the screw ups..
10 “attaboys” are wasted with one “aww shit”.
With this bias media, how can you expect to keep these trigger happy iraqis under control
My two cents worth.
Ozzie
Future Soldier
Most of the men and women in these prisons are petty thiefs, arrested for looting, not for attacking troops. They are not the enemy. They are civilian prisoners.
The “trigger-happy Iraqis” are in the minority. The majority of people are common citizens, like you and me, just trying to live their lives in peace.
Man, I keep hearing on this site and others that these were just petty thieves or they were just looters… Again, the facts get twisted by the left… This happen in the most tightly secured cell block at abu ghraib prison… Do I condone this…? Absolutely not… but to generalize that this is the norm within the US military is an insult. Our country goes to great lengths to sacrifice the safety of our young men and women to accommodate the safety of the “common citizens”. And one last comment… Berg, the young man that was murdered at the hands of these psychopaths thugs… I know his dad is in no doubt distressed and broken hearted… and my heart so go outs to him… but for his dad to politize his son’s death is a tragedy. For his dad to compare President Bush and Rumsfield on the same level as al Quada is an outrage.
Chad, if they were such tightly guarded prisoners, why were 300 of them released today?
We went to Iraq because of WMDs, to protect the “common citizens.” Saddam had none. US common citizens were in no danger from Saddam. We are in danger from Al Queda, but not Iraqi civilians.
Mr. Berg is not politicizing his son’s death. His son would not be dead had we not gone into Iraq. Who took us to Iraq? President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld.
New Yorker: Torture At Abu Ghraib
This is not how Americans – and particularly, American soldiers – act. Except they did. They knew better – they had to know better, just as they knew that it couldn’t stay a secret – and they did it anyway….