Being Out on Residency Applications
So I’ve discussed being out as a blogger on residency apps, so now it’s time for the harder (but more important and wide-reaching) subject: Being Out, Coming Out–whatever you want to call it–as an LGBT person on residency applications.
I don’t really talk much about my personal life on this blog–I think mainly because where I go hiking on the weekends or who I go grab a drink with wouldn’t really interest anyone, and doesn’t have much to do with the theme of this blog: becoming a doctor, thoughts on health policy–that kind of thing. But this doesn’t get talked about a whole lot–hell, gay anything doesn’t get talked about much anywhere in the world of medicine–but it should, so here we go (sorry, it requires some history):
As a gay man man who happens to be gay, it hasn’t always been an easy road in medical school. Overall, I’ve been incredibly fortunate to be at a medical school in the San Francisco Bay Area that is overwhelmingly gay-friendly–with Out gay, lesbian, and even transgendered faculty even. My classmates have truly been amazing in their embracing of me (it probably helps that I’m kind of awesome, too). I wasn’t sure what to expect, but I’m incredibly excited for my generation of physicians, if they’re anything like my classmates.
I decided to just be “the gay classmate” from Day One–none of that “coming out” stuff that can be awkward and uncomfortable. I’ve always preferred to just drop the hint than have to come right out and say “Oh, I’m gay.” I’d much prefer to mention my ex, and then use the pronoun he, or one of many other such schemes I have previously concocted. Easier for me that way, and I find it to be less direct and confrontational. I don’t have something to prove, or some vendetta or anything. I yam what I yam.
The residents I worked with were, for the most part, great too. I wasn’t out to most of them–rarely did it come up or have any import–but when it did everyone was very accepting (as they should be). I’m not what people might call “gay-acting” (translation: what you see in the media as gay stereotypes), but I’m always surprised when someone assumes I’m straight (’cause it’s so darn obvious to me that I’m not), which a few residents did. The one incident that sticks out in my head was a surgery resident–otherwise good guy–who called his intern who felt bad for a patient “so fucking gay,” as a put-down. Lost a lot of respect for the guy right then and there. My esprit d’escalier reminds me that I should have spoken up or said something, but I didn’t.
So for the most part, I’ve always felt like I’ve just been able to be me during medical school, and I decided that’s how I was going to continue to be on my residency application. Being gay is certainly part of me, but it’s not the only part of me. I decided to include it in my application. I was the LGBT-Meds president for a year (2004-2005, baby!), so there it went on my app. (It ended up being pretty buried in my application, as achievements and extra-curriculars are listed reverse
chronologically, and I didn’t really have anything else to say about it, so that was the only place it was on my application.)
My perspective was and continues to be this: I am going to be a great doctor. I’m smart, I work hard, I’m positive and I play well with others. If a residency program wants to drop me in their rank list because the fact that I’m gay somehow overrides all those other things? Their loss.
So applied to 13 places. And got 13 interviews.
The fact that I’m gay barely came up on the interview trail–in fact, less than the blogging did. I’m not sure if this was because people were uncomfortable (didn’t seem like it), they didn’t want to get in trouble for a rules violation (possible), or just didn’t see it on my application (also possible). A gay residency director (I think the only out one in Emergency Medicine) did talk with me about it briefly, saying it was strong of me to put it on my application. I think one resident did mention that Chicago is gay-friendly, and he has a few gay friends, which was a really nice way to both a) let me know he read my application and b) let me know that he and the program were gay-friendly.
So how did things turn out? 8/10 programs where I interviewed contacted me saying I was a great candidate–whatever that’s worth–so I’d say being gay certainly didn’t hurt my application (not trying to brag to make people feel bad, just trying to give some data to future LGBT applicants). If anything, it certainly makes me stand out as a unique candidate as well.
It’s hard to say how things would have gone had I applied in another specialty or at other programs. There’s certainly a selection bias at work here: I only really applied to major urban areas (LA, SF, Chicago, New York, Boston) for my training, which are by default more open and gay-friendly. If I was applying to more rural schools, I’ll admit I don’t know if I would have put it on my application. It also helped that I knew I had a strong application, with good board scores, evaluations, research, teaching experience, extra-curriculars, and letters of recommendation–this made it easier for me to apply to these major urban areas and still feel like I’d have a chance of matching at one of them.
I don’t know what I’d say about other specialties, really. Emergency Medicine types in my experience are usually pretty laid back, fun people who’ve seen it all, and really care more about doing a good job and being efficient than much else–so I really didn’t anticipate it being much of an issue. I have no idea about other specialties, besides that fact that I know LGBT people in many specialties–including the surgical ones–but again, they’re all in the Bay Area, too. It seemed to me like the Psychiatrists, Internists, and Pediatricians were the most gay-friendly on my rotations overall, but I’ve talked with general surgeons who have told me about their gay general surgeon friends, too. There’s a pretty outdated survey on the AMSA website about LGBT-friendliness for specialties and residency programs, if that helps anyone… I’d love to hear other people’s opinions.
I hope this helps someone!
I wish I had half your courage. In my day you just didn’t wear your sexuality on your sleeve.
Well written.
I don’t think G or any other student that I know (who may be gay) wear their sexuality on the sleeve. Straight ppl don’t so there is no need for gay ppl to do so. And the blogs doesn’t not suggest it…you’ll have to read between the lines or pay close attention to figure it out. So, it hasn’t been a billboard sign…
I am a male medical student who, like you happens to be gay. However, I didn’t fully embrace this until sophomore year of medical school (yes, I struggled with it). Still single…by choice and only out to a college friend (recently) who was pretty accepting but shocked because she “never” suspected anything as I didn’t fit into the gay stereotype mold and I never did anything to ‘overcompensate’ for being closetted. Well, I was never in the closet…just didn’t really come to terms with it until a couple of years ago.
Anyway, I didn’t include this in my application because 1) I was applying to a surgical field 2) I was applying to a competitive field…the last thing I need is some hater to read my file and toss it somewhere. However, this question came up in >50% of interviews (yes, it’s illegal but honestly, they don’t care). Interviewers asked me about my wife or girlfriend several times. They were probably trying to be polite but they could’ve asked about partners or significant others. Most residents used the word “significant other”. There was an interview where I responded that I don’t have a “partner” yet and the interviewer promptly mentioned that there are plenty of opportunities to date women here because the location is a top place for singles (heterosexual singles), family friendly (heterosexual etc). He was a nice guy but it just stuck out that the program basically painted the picture of a desirable resident as married with children (in the presentation, interviews, benefits bla bla bla).
I never really thought about this until now. But I won’t be afraid to drop subtle hints come residency. It’s been a long road, especially when your orthodox christian parents are lending you $$ to finish school–you’ll have to think twice (and more) about coming out to anybody b4, on any platform until you have that MD in your hands.
I applaud your bravery and I must confess the only reason I read this blog regularly is because the first time I read it, there were hints. I was relieved that there is at least someone out there who is out and sort of gave me hope. I know this is long, but it is somewhat therapeutic.
Anyway, it’s glad to have that darn ROL submitted.
Last sentence should’ve read, “I’m glad to have that darn ROL submitted”
Being 15 years out from med school, things may be a little different, but in Ortho, I’d just keep it to yourself. It was illegal back in the 90’s as well, but I distinctly remember an ashen faced applicant coming out of an interview in a large Dallas program after a series of questions…”Are you married? (illegal), no; “Do you have a girlfriend? (illegal), no; “Son, do you like BOYS??!! (illegal question - even in Texas).
That said, I wouldn’t lie to interviewers - as you said, if they have a problem with it, their loss - but wearing it on your sleeve (no, I know you didn’t), may be counterproductive. And to be fair, it may be more of an attitude that is unfavorable, than what the basis of the attitude is. Some programs very much desire a cohesive group, and any applicant with a “this is who I am, what are you going to do about it?” attitude may be less desirable, whether it be sexual orientation, or research experience -(I still remember an overly aggressive applicant who NEVER stopped talking about his research - even while drinking beers with the residents and applicants after hours. Everyone on “the trail” knew that guy.
Good Luck!
Okay, so I guess to properly comment on this post, I am sort of “coming out,” as a blogger, but maybe it’s not official until I actually post it on my blog. Anyway, I am a lesbian/bisexual/depends on how you define things. Wow, I already feel better.
I just wanted to say that I think it is very brave and very important that you were upfront with people from the beginning. I’ve never “lied” to anyone who asked, but I don’t bring it up like I could. There are probably tons of reasons why. Perhaps on the top of the list is the fact that I had a multi-colored mohawk when I began med school. That obviously drew a lot of attention to me in the first place. I’m not actually all about drawing attention, I just think colored hair looks good on me! So, I guess I felt like I didn’t want to advertise everything about me, and draw even more attention. Also, I experienced a huge culture shock when I moved to Dominica, the island where my school is located. I’m from DC, and used to a very gay friendly environment. Dominica is pretty much the polar opposite. It’s considered very taboo here, and is not generally accepted by most people.
Okay, so I’m starting to ramble now. Again, thanks so much for the post. It’s great to hear that someone out there has the courage to do what’s right. I don’t think we should live in fear. And it definitely would have been their loss, had they chose to reject you based on your orientation.
So, there you have it. My little mini coming out. Thanks for giving me the venue. And thanks for being such an awesome blogger.
The best of luck to you on your application process!
Hey, as the only male member of AMWA, and one of just a few straight folks in the LGBT group, I didn’t confuse anybody!
Of course, in psychiatry, being gay, Jewish, or vegetarian is pure bonus points. I only got the vegetarian points, unfortunately.
You don’t have to wear it on your sleeve — you can wear it on your lapel: http://www.amsa.org/lgbt/pincampaign.cfm
Thanks for your post! It’s good to hear confirmation that it was not a big deal to residency programs.
Does anyone have any opinions on how the struggle differs for male and female physicians who are gay?
I think being gay on an application is less controversial in academia than being Republican. I had more gay professors than Republican ones and Republicans are about 40-50% of the population.
If I were gay, I’d do my best to hide the fact that I was a Republican.
Not sure how the two relate to each other, Nurse Kelly. And several of the programs I applied to aren’t “academic” programs.
Controversy has nothing to do with it. It has to do with being respected as a person, treated as a human being.
Hi everyone and especially Graham,
I was surfing around a little bit on the internet, searching for interesting medical blogs. Quite honestly, because I am thinking about starting one myself. I am from the Netherlands and I am gay.
I stumbled onto your site and frankly, I am amazed. Evidently, a doctor’s sexuality is still a big issue! I am a fellow in intensive care medicine and during my career I have always been open about my sexuality. All my colleagues know, my boss knows, the nursing staff knows. I have two other colleagues who are openly gay. Don’t get me wrong: it’s not about being confrontational or anything, it just IS. We take our partners to formal dinners, parties, etc. And honestly: I do not feel that I have ever been discriminated against, professionally!
I have never mentioned my sexuality in my resume (because, frankly, it never occurred to me to do that), but it has come up during interviews. I have never been rejected.
I am not trying to make it sound like I live in Utopia, but it is true!
I really love the US. I’ve been to your beautiful country many times and met so many great people, but these stories continue to amaze me.
Let’s hope that during the next elections, at least one democratic candidate will be gay! ;-)
Warm greetings from across the Atlantic
I was merely pointing out that it is against the law, for one, to discriminate because someone is gay, but if you “hate” Republicans like many nurses and doctors will openly say AT WORK and will very openly say at school, it is okay to not hire a Republican. It’s not a protected class.
So, alas, I’d be afraid to put something on there that some people openly “hate” and are allowed to factor into a decision to not accept you even if they don’t say that is the reason.
“Gee, K, you seem like a good nurse, but we serve a lot of poor and indigent people and with your, um, background, I don’t think this job would be a good fit for you.”
I think your comparison would make a little more sense if I was talking about religion. Your political affiliation and your religion are two things you choose. I never had a say in being gay. (And I have no idea where you work or live, but here in Kansas being “out” as a Republican would certainly be embraced.
Nah, because religion is a protected thing too. You can’t discriminate against someone because they are Muslim, but, again, you can discriminate against them for their political beliefs and many do. In nursing (not sure about medicine, but I imagine it’s similar), you are outright called “unethical” in widely-distributed publications, at work, and in college for being a Republican, voting for a Republican, or being in favor of lower taxes if the higher tax would give more handouts.
I just thought it would be interesting to point out something that is common (political activism in college or otherwise) that could legally be used against you explicitly or otherwise on a job/program application. People feel strongly about their political beliefs and oftentimes think people who don’t believe as they do are inferior mentally or whatever.
For example, if I were hiring for a leadership position, I’d probably not consider a candidate who said they were active in MoveOn.org because I find those people generally annoying, hard to deal with, and possessing lackluster logic skills. It would be REALLY hard for me to overcome that when looking at the job application, I think.
I always enjoy reading your blog and this post especially hit very close to home for me as I too am going through the application/interview process for residency(Radiology) and happen to be gay. I am couples matching with my boyfriend and it got very tiring explaining that Kip was in fact a boy, not a girl like everyone assumed(has anyone ever heard of a girl named Kip anyway?) and eventually I just stopped correcting the interviewers because I got tired of them not understanding(with one interviewer I had to say it three different ways before he finally got it). If I could do it all again I would have been more clear expressing myself and not letting them make me feel uncomfortable for being gay but at the time I just let it slide because I didn’t want them to look upon me negatively.
As a gay male who is starting med school next year, I found this post to be really interesting. I decided not to discuss my sexuality in med school applications except when there was a question concerning diversity (for example, on Stanford’s secondary application). I am white, upper class male and so I don’t really bring any other kind of diversity to the table. I hope that highlighting this part of who I am did not arouse any negative feelings of the application committee, but I think if that were the case, I would not want to be at that particular school anyway. I plan on being totally out in medical school, since I currently am out to everyone I know. Its not something that I would bring up in a purely medical context, but certainly in a social one. I never felt the need to hide it in college and I hope the same proves to be true next fall.
1) Dave, good luck with couples match.
2) Who the heck is Nurse K? Some of these comments don’t even make sense to me. And if I were an employer…I would WANT to employ ppl with different belief systems, ideas and political inclinations because it’s fair, and they are hardworking. Besides, that’s how you grow and learn, that’s how you influence each other positively. If someone has a prejudice and they do not get the chance to interact positively with the subset they are prejudiced again, then they die with that culture (and pass it on to their children).
3). Graham…have you seen this….
http://medblog.nl/medblogen/
Oh s$*t…I read Nurse K’s page…now I know who he/she is.